Search Pavada



About Pavada

  • This blog is a place for English translations of prose and poetry from Indian languages. Please consider this note to be a standing invitation for translation contributions. If you have a translation that you think is good enough to go online, then send me email. I am Crazyfinger. I can be reached at crazyfingerorg@gmail.com.

« Two Poems by Ismail: English Versions | Main | "Rahasya Vaana" by Kalpana Rentala: English Version »

Oct 06, 2009

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

> It is very interesting to note how well
> the words and the meaning retain their
> beauty in Spanish and Hebrew, just as it
> does in English.
[snip]
> They cluster close together as seen
> in this evolutionary tree of genes
> and languages.

Without even going into the drawbacks of Cavalli-Sforza's theories, I am afraid your hypothesis can be termed as a bit far-fetched. Linguistic phylogenetic proximity doesn't always correspond to the semantic proximity. For instance, if you consider the Dravidian phylogeny, Tamil is much closer to Kannada than Telugu (Tamil and Kannada belong to SD-I, whereas Telugu is SD-II), but it is easy to see that modern semantics and poetics of Kannada are much closer to that of Telugu (Consider how easy to translate a song like 'caitrada kusumAnjali' of Ananda bhairavi into Telugu). This has much to do with recent common political history of these two regions and how the poetic traditions of these two languages borrowed heavily from the traditions of Sanskrit.

What say you?

Hi sphujidhwaja,

Ah, I did not see this comment, there was no hypothesis building, just an observation that it did seem to keep the rhythm in these three languages -visually too-

"It was interesting to note" -is not intended to mean it is always true of closely clustering languages to have similar semantics and poetics.

With this vacana, and the random chance of having translators in languages distant from kannada, there happened a lovely flow of poetic rhythm.

One poem is too narrow a base to validate Cavalli-Sforza's or any other theory, no?

When you say Dravidian phylogeny, do you mean the people or the language? Tamils are closer to Kannadigas than Telugus (geographically too), but in language, script, poetics and semantics Kannada is a lot closer to Telugu. This has been my perception so far, will be interested to hear alternate perspectives.

Recent political history (modern recent or Krishnadevarayya times)?

Also Akkamahadevi finally settled in Srisailam which was erstwhile telugu or kannada region? and are the vacana's also sung in Telugu? Curious to know. :)

Boy, a lot of questions, and not being a professionally trained linguist or historian, I shouldn't be venturing into answering them, but let me go out on a limb and give them a shot, anyway.

1. In my opinion, there are no Dravidian people and Aryan people in India. There are only Indo-Aryan languages and Dravidian languages (besides Munda languages, Tibeto-Burmese languages and isolated languages like Burushaski and Nahali etc.) There may have been a small segment of population that carried these languages into Indian subcontinent (esp. Indo-Aryan languages), but they might not have profoundly altered the genetic identity of India -- it is more likely that many locals adopted the "elitist" languages. This is where I think the Cavalli-Sforza's overstatement about language families strongly correlating with genetic families gets him into trouble.

2. The history of scripts has been independent of the history of languages, which is esp. true of Indian sub-continent. We know that India has five different linguistic families, but there is only one family of scripts with almost all of them deriving from the proto-Brahmi script. The similarity of Telugu and Kannada scripts owes its origin to the rule of Chalukya dynasty that ruled the region of Andhra-Karnataka between 6th-12th centuries.

3. There is no dispute among the linguists on whether Kannada is closer to Tamil or Telugu. If we look at the phonology, morphology, syntax and primary vocabulary all of them point to one thing: Kannada and Tamil belong to the same sub-branch and Telugu belongs to a different sub-branch. A few examples of common linguistic feature of Tamil-Kannada branch: addition of -gaL for plural; creation of 3rd person feminine singular forms avaL and corresponding verb conjugations etc.

4. There are no vacana poets in Telugu. Actually, in modern lingo the word vacana is used in Telugu to mean "prose". If there is anybody, pAlkUriki sOmanAtha comes pretty close to being a vacana poet. He wrote in "desi" metres (dwipada) and was a follower of basava, and he attempted to propogate vIraSaiva faith in his writings. Actually, it appears he was also known for his kannaDa works too. Velcheru Narayana Rao's "Siva's Warriors: The Basava Purana of Pakluriki Somanatha" is an interesting read.

You both appear to be enormously talented. I look forward to reading many more interesting topics and translations (including translations into Telugu) on this website!

Thanks,
Sphujidhwaja.

The comments to this entry are closed.